Gauguin's World Symposium

- Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Georgia Close and my role is Head of Learning here at the National Gallery of Australia. It's my pleasure to welcome you to the gallery today for our symposium to celebrate the opening of "Gauguin's World: Tona Iho, Tona Ao." I would also like to welcome our online audiences who are joining us from across Australia and also overseas. I'm honoured to be joined this afternoon by Ngunnawal Elder, Aunty Caroline Hughes. Throughout her career as an educator, Aunty Caroline has been a champion for the transformative power of education. In 2023, Aunty Caroline was recognised as a member of the Order of Australia for her years of service to her community through education, cultural programmes, and Ngunnawal language revival. Thank you, Aunty Caroline, for welcoming us to Country today.

- Thank you, Georgia. Now that's a challenge for the interpreters and the people online, but basically what I have said is, distinguished guests from around the world, including France, French Polynesia, and Australia, all honourable lovers of the arts, and there's a room full here today, isn't there? Yeah. Together in the spirit of harmony and wellbeing, we are meeting on Ngunnawal Country. I'd also like to acknowledge all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people and non-Indigenous friends gathered here today and pay my respect to other lands from across the nation, from where people are dialling in from and pay my respect to their elders both past and present. I'm actually one of many Ngunnawal elders that have the cultural responsibility and privilege to provide Welcome to Country and other ceremonial practises on our lands. The Welcome to Country is not about welcoming Australians to your own country. The Welcome to Country is an invitation to be part of an ancient, traditional ceremony. It's about the understanding of the deep sacredness and enduring connections that Ngunnawal and others have with , our homelands. The National Gallery of Australia is built on Ngunnawalwari dhawurawari, meaning Ngunnawal Country and meaning a place of belonging or home. No concrete or building can ever mute the vibration that we feel of Country calling and holding us. Country nurtures our people and strengthens connections to our ancestors through the earth, sky, and the environment. I'd like to reflect that whilst our eyes are feasting, absolutely feasting on the beautiful colour and mastery of Gauguin's art, we need to remember the reality of the times for French Polynesian people. Meaning remembering to not assume, but the importance of cultural immersion with what you're looking at today, cultural immersion that no matter where you are in somebody's country is to build deep connections, to build strong relationships. The artworks depict the depth of a beautiful, beautiful culture with a strong striking culture built on family and community. Ngunnawal are deeply honoured to host our neighbours from French Polynesia. Your cultural spirituality is strongly evident, depicted in the exhibition of Gauguin's world. You lend us your cultural authority with pride these few days showcasing your beautiful culture through songs, dance, telling us stories of your traditions that hold deep layers of spiritual significant and meaning. For that on behalf of the Ngunnawal but also all of Australia, Dhjan Yimaba, thank you. We too share many similarities that bring friendship and care for you as our visitors. And I ask the spirits of my ancestors to bless today's gathering for everybody, but especially those from French Polynesia. In the words of my beautiful ancestors whose language I was forbidden to speak as a child growing up, not for assimilation purposes or not just for assimilation purposes, but to protect me. And what I've said is that this place is Ngunnawal Country. This place is my ancestors' spiritual homeland. And together with all of you here today, we are keeping an ancient practice alive and well. Dhjan Yimaba thank you.

- Thank you, Auntie Caroline, for your generous welcome. I would now like to welcome Adam Lindsay to the stage, the deputy director of the National Gallery. Thanks, Adam.

- Good afternoon and welcome to the National Gallery of Australia. Thank you so much, Aunty Caroline. Really beautiful and poetic welcome. We're delighted to present the Gauguin's World Symposium in celebration of our exhibition, which opens tomorrow, "Gauguin's World: Tona Iho, Tona Ao," and the complimentary exhibition, the "SaVAge K'lub" and I say Va, because as Rosanna Raymond would say, "The SaVAge K'lub put the Va in SaVAge." I would like to particularly acknowledge that we are joined by Dr. Hinanui Cauchois, director of the Tahitian Museum, Carol Henry, CEO of Art Exhibitions Australia, and Rosanna Raymond, MNZM, as well as her fellow artists from the SaVAge K'lub. We've got a fantastic lineup of speakers today. We've got Vaiana Giraud, we've got Nick Thomas, Miriama Bono, and Henri Loyrette. And personally I'd like to thank you, Henri, former esteemed director of the Louvre and Musée d'Orsay, you have curated an exceptional exhibition here. You've brilliantly traced the trajectory of Gauguin's career from his impressionist beginnings in France to some of his most recognised masterpieces, many of them created in Tahiti and the Marquesas Islands. We're delighted to bring everybody the exhibition here at the National Gallery of Australia in Canberra. And I hope very much that you enjoy today's symposium and come back tomorrow to see the full exhibition when it opens to the public. Thank you.

- Thank you, Adam. So, as Adam said, in today's program, we will hear from four of the key contributors to the "Gauguin's World" exhibition catalogue. Curator Henri Loyrette will be joined by authors Vaiana Giraud, Miriama Bono, and Nicholas Thomas. Between them, they have expertise ranging from 19th century painting to French literature, Tahitian language, and Polynesian culture. Each of them will share insights from their catalogue essays, considering Gauguin's art, his history, and how contemporary perspectives enable new readings of his work. As curator of "Gauguin's World," Henri Loyrette is our first presenter this afternoon. Henri is a scholar of 19th century art and architecture, and as Adam said, former director of the Musée d'Orsay and the Musee du Louvre in Paris. In addition to his work on Gauguin, Henri is a specialist in the art and lives of Edgar Degas, and Edouard Manet. Please join me in welcoming Henri to the stage. Thank you, Henri.

- Thank you so, so much, Georgia, for your kind words. I just want to start telling how happy I am to be here today and to present briefly this exhibition. I say briefly because there is a lot to say about it. And just to say first thing, it was not easy, I have to say, because we started before the pandemia, we started with the Russian loans, as I can guess, it's impossible now. And we had to postpone the exhibition to rebuild something. And with it, thanks to Carol Henry, I don't know if Carol is here today, thanks to Art Exhibition Australia, and thanks to the National Gallery in Canberra. Ah, there you are. And finally, I guess, I hope, I hope you saw it already, we did something which is quite interesting, and for me, quite interesting because seeing this painting, these prints, these subjects together learned me something also. And because many, many are not so often shown, many are not so often shown together. So you can have comparisons and that's quite important. It's the first exhibition, as we say, in the first exhibition in the Pacific, of Gauguin. So it seems quite strange, but I mean, it's like that. So the idea was to do something, which is a little bit different of what happens, what could happen in Europe, for example, or in the Americas where we are used to present works of Gauguin. Knowing also, but something which is quite interesting that you don't have a single work by Gauguin in the museums in Australia, for example, is quite surprising, because you have some in Melbourne, in Sydney, here in Canberra, many important paintings from the late 19th century, except Gauguin, I would say. So, it's a gap, which is also quite interesting. So the first idea was for me to start at the end of Gauguin's life when he arrived in the Marquesas, you know, in September 1901, he's quite sick. He's coming from Tahiti. He’s fed up with Tahiti. He wanted to find new motifs. But he knew also he was dying. He was not in very good shape. And he hoped to find something new in the Marquesas, which was a very remote place, I would say. And as soon as he arrives, he built his own house. The Maison du Jouir, we come back later on this Maison du Jouir, and he start working. And for 18 months he will share his time between paintings, culture and also writing. Writing is very important part of his life at that time. He died in May, 1903, and soon after young sailor, could you say that? What. Went to the Marquesas and went to the cave of Gauguin, and he found this painting, which was on the Maison, and it's quite strange, you know, because I mean, it's not exactly, it's not exactly the Marquesas, it's a painting made, we don't know where but perhaps in Tahiti, perhaps in Tahiti. But when he saw it, I mean he believed it was the last painting made by Gauguin in the Marquesas. So this strange view of a village under the snow in Brittany. And a few weeks later in September, 1903, he bought this painting, we had two important sales of works by Gauguin, which remained in the Marquesas, in Tahiti, in Papeete, and he bought it with this sculpture made for the Maison du Jouir. And I would say, it's the reason it's the last painting in the exhibition, because here starts the legend of Gauguin. You know, it's very difficult to know what happened really in the Marquesas, what were the paintings he did and the catalogue is quite unstable, I would say. So there's a lot of discussion about it, and seeing many paintings in this exhibition, I think we have strong problems of dates and something I want to see again. But I mean that was really for me, the start of, the starting point of the exhibition. The second was the self, his the last self-portrait. Justin. That was done surely in Marquesas, you know, was done surely in the Marquesas, But I mean the... Is it a legend, we don't know exactly, but it's told that Ky Dong, was a Vietnamese friend of Gauguin, is hiding in the Marquesas by the French authority, because he was fighting against the colonisation in Vietnam, started a painting. And he didn't succeed at doing it, and Gauguin did it himself. I don't think it's true. I think it's completely by Gauguin. And looking at it carefully, it doesn't mark any difference between a possible intervention of Ky Dong and Gauguin. But what is very moving with this portrait, I mean this self-portrait, which is the last self-portrait by Gauguin, is completely different of what he did before. Gauguin is one of the artists like Courbet, perhaps, and later, like Picasso, who likes to represent him, very often he did, he does it very often, since the beginnings, you know, till the real end. And most of the time he places himself in a different situation. It's not, I mean, an accurate self-portrait, I would say. For example, next, Justin, for example, we have in this exhibition, this "Bonjour, Monsieur Gauguin," which was made in Brittany in 1889 and which was part of the setting of the auberge of Marie Henry Le Pouldu, so it was part of a decor, I would say. It's the version which was in the auberge and there is one bigger version, which is now in Prague, in the Narodni Galerie. Obviously it's a self-portrait, because, I mean, he calls it "Bonjour Monsieur Gauguin" referencing to Courbet, but as you see, it's not really a portrait. I mean it's much more what we could call in France a tableau, that means a picture, where he plays a role, like for example, in this next paintings. Justin. We see here, which are also in the exhibition. On the left you have the self-portrait with a yellow Christ, and on the right, the painting from Sao Paulo, which is inscribed "Near Golgotha," près du Golgotha. So you see that in the first painting, in the left painting is between, I mean, I would say heaven and hell. And between this yellow Christ he painted, which is now in Buffalo, and this ceramic, which is in the Musée d'Orsay and which is representing kind of demonic figures, I would say. So it's a kind of triple portrait of Gauguin himself. Nearby, you have this self-portrait, which is "Près du Golgotha," at the time, painted at very difficult time for Gauguin, when he was thinking to commit suicide. It was in Tahiti at that time. And it's quite an intriguing portrait, I would say. "Près du Golgotha" is difficult, "Near Golgotha" is difficult to explain, but very often Gauguin, even in the letter, in writings presents himself as a kind of Christ, you know, this man of sorrow, rejected and acquainted with grief. So it plays a role, I would say, also in this very beautiful and mysterious self-portrait. So that's really the first, going back to the first, no, going back to the first self-portrait, if you can. After all this self-portrait, you know, the last image of Gauguin is this one. So he is without mask, I would say as, as he was himself at that time, wearing glasses, you know, kind of old man, but I mean without any kind of, he doesn't want to show something, I would say. It's like a funerary portrait that strikes me very much. And Gauguin was very... So it's kind of testament, I would say, because I mean, Gauguin you very much what, the Fayum portraits, especially in the Louvre, I don't know, this kind of funerary portrait, you know, in ancient Egypt, which were transmitting the faces of the dead people. So it's exactly the same format, exact same composition, I would say. And it's something which is quite striking. And Gauguin knew a lot about it. And at that time in the '80s, '90s, the Fayum portrait became very popular and the Louvre were acquiring many of them. So it's interesting to see the evolution of this self-portrait and to consider the last one. And for me, which is interesting, you know, it's what, at the end of his life, Gauguin wants to say, wants to show off himself. The self-portrait says something, as well as the writing, his last writing at that moment. As well also, I would say, as the house is built, which is the Maison du Jouir. Next, Justin, please. So it's an important thing, you know, now it's rebuilt, in Atuona, it's a kind of new version, I would say, of Maison du Jouir without of course the original panels, which are in the Musée d'Orsay now, which were bought by Segalan, the one who bought the Brittany landscape under the snow. And what is interesting, it's the first time he has his own house. I mean, he was always living, into corridors between finding finally a place of his own. And that's also important, because we'll see what he does with this Maison du Jouir. In my essay I say a lot about, but I don't have time to say about Maison du Jouir, the title itself. Many think it just kind of, that means kind of tropical brothel. But I mean, it's not only that, I would say, it's surely provocative, but I mean it's much more subtle, much more subtle than that. And the panels are quite enigmatic. So it's the, I would say, the Maison du Jouir, like the writings, it's the second self-portrait of Gauguin at the end of this life. The third one, I would say, is what he writes in "Avant et Après," "Avant et Après," Justin, please, here just a cover of the manuscript of this book. The manuscript is now in the Courtauld Gallery. It's a book, which is very interesting. I mean, it's, from my point of view, a real masterpiece. Gauguin loved to write. In a sense, a great writer, even if it's little known. But he published a lot as a kind of journalist, for example, fighting against the colonial domination, but also telling many, many things and inventing a new kind of book like we see with "Noa Noa." The manuscript is not yet correctly edited. So it's quite problematic in some points. And it needs to, I hope that Vaiana, who works on Gauguin writing, will do it today. But I mean, it needs more and more knowledge about it, and in some chapters it's quite difficult to decipher. Anyway, it's normally considered as kind of reservoir of anecdotes and so on, but it's much more than that. It really tells something about Gauguin at the end of his life, and what is striking, you know, is going back to his career, to what happened. And in a very strange way, because for example, his friendship with Pissarro, he didn't say quite anything about it, very little about his friendship with Van Gogh, for example. So he wants to give a new vision of what he did and to say exactly what was his legacy. And when we look at it, it's very striking to see that the main figures in his life are no more Pissarro, no more Vincent Van Gogh, but are really Degas, Cézanne, and Puvis de Chavannes. And it's something we see very obviously, I would say, in the paintings he did at that moment, for example, with "Still Life," which is in the exhibition and which was painted in 1901. And I tell more after about the photograph, but when you look at the painting itself, you have this bouquet of sunflowers, which manifestly evoke Vincent Van Gogh, I mean, which was a favourite subject of Vincent. You have in the background, a photography of a work by Puvis de Chavannes, "Hope," which is now in the Musée d'Orsay, and the small image, black and white image, it's difficult to decipher, figure leaning, is monotype by Degas. And there is this kind of marketing bowl, I would say. So it's a mixture of all the possible sources of Gauguin at that time. And what is interesting is to see that we have Puvis de Chavannes, we have Degas, but it's the way it was hanged, I would say, in the Maison du Jouir. In the Maison du Jouir, Degas was surrounded by all the artists he liked, you know, not only, I mean, he didn't come alone to the Marquesas. He came with Holbeinfor example. Behind the photograph by Louis Grelet of Tohotaua, you have this painting of Holbein ?, which is in Basel now, and you have also a photograph, you don't see it because the photograph is here, the production is not very good of a Buddha on the left. Above you have here the same figure, by Puvis de Chavannes, you see in this "Still Life, Hope." And next to it, even if it's difficult to see, you have a pastel by Degas, which is now in Bueno Aires. So for me, it's important to consider that at the end of his life, he say exactly in which tradition he wanted to be, how he wanted to be considered in a way. And the importance it was giving to different artists he liked. And like Degas the same time, because Degas is really a prominent figure with Cezanne, more than Cezanne, and I will come back to that, like Puvis de Chavannes, he wanted really to build a museum. He wanted to be surrounded by the artists he liked, and to say in which context he wanted to be shown. And that's very important, remembering that, for example, the National Museum of Contemporary Art in Paris was full of academic paintings he didn't like. So he tells us exactly in which context he wanted to be considered. So that's also, I would say, the Maison du Jouir in a way, the second self-portrait made by Gauguin at that time. I will... Yes, too long. I'm sorry. But just few things which are important in this exhibition you can discover. I just insist on this pair of paintings, because it's the first time I see it together and it's very important. I mean, the painting of Hamburg on the left and on the right, this "Children Wrestling" from the Louvre Abu Dhabi. It's interesting because the two paintings were painted at three weeks or four weeks distance, you know, so it's very close. But you see from one to the other, the change what happened in Gauguin's art in a very short period of time in 1888, going from something which is more a formal academic, I would say, now, it's not real world, but I mean, looking back to Degas and Puvis once more, to something, which is quite, I mean, new. I mean, it's the kind of synthesism, for example, he adopts in 1888. Just to underline the importance in this exhibition of new, I would say sometimes a new vision about Gauguin's art. The last image I want to show you, it's this painting, which is also a great masterpiece by Gauguin, which travels rarely, I would say, and which is in Worcester now. And what is interesting, I mean many things are interesting in this painting, but I wanted to show you something. First, he belonged to Degas, and Degas was the main supporter of Gauguin in the '90s, I would say, when Gauguin was really, I mean, despised and got very few supporters. For example, Renoir hated it, didn't understand it. So Degas bought, really, perhaps the most important paintings by Gauguin in the '90s, but not only paintings, also prints and drawings. So he was a supporter of Gauguin. What is interesting is you understand why, I mean, when you look at it, as Georgia say, I first start working on, on alot on Degas, and Gauguin was a bit far away from me. I didn't understand the connection between the two artists. They knew each other for a long time. They were fighting all together, I mean, all the time, during the impressionist times. And finally Degas and Gauguin found themselves, I would say. And obviously when you look, I published some notes written by Degas about this collection of works he got by Gauguin, which were unpublished in now. And you see that Gauguin didn't care about the subject, he didn't care about Tahiti and so on. But what was important for him was, was the attitude, was the faith, was the movement, was the stage, I would say. And if you consider it like that, I mean, you see that, I mean the stage, for example, it's not only the case, it's like a stage, you know, which is going up, and the pose and even the attitude of this brooding woman, which recalls a painting by Degas called "Sulking," has something to be compared to the works of Degas. So what is important, you know, and is to consider that the artist would die in the Marquesas after so many tribulations, I mean, after spending a long time in Brittany, going to Martinique, going to Tahiti, going to the Marquesas, remains a French artist, completely a French artist, I would say. Surely looking at different kinds of civilizations, but looking always back to Paris. And when he writes "Avant et Après", it’s strange that he doesn't speak so much of the Marquesas, for example, he speak of all his friends, which remain in Paris, of critics, of what happened there, and very little about Tahiti or Marquesas. So, it's something which is also quite interesting and moving, in a way. So just to conclude, I mean, it's a little bit in disorder, I'm sorry, but I mean, when you look at Gauguin, he appears as a very special artist, I would say, and, for example, what we call it primitivism, which is truly something important, I mean, remembering, for example, that we in the 1984 exhibition made by Bill Rubin and Kirk Varnedoe at the MoMA New York, it was the kind of forward of primitivism, introducing what happened later with Matisse, Braque, Durand and Picasso is not the right position, I think, because that comes from, I mean, the question of primitivism is something which is important since the end of the 18th century. And Gauguin was looking after and also some primitives like, for example, which is very frequent in his mind. So that's the first thing. The second thing is Gauguin, like Degas, he is an artist for... Technical innovation is something central. He's using all kinds of media and you will see it in exhibition, the exhibition is something we wanted to balance, you know, between paintings, cultures, objects, prints, monotypes, drawings and so on. So, I mean, it's with the idea, like Degas, of what you say in painting, you cannot say in monotypes, for example, very different way to show what you think, what you see and so on. So that this vision is quite important. You have to consider that, for example, that Monet is a wonderful painter but he is only a painter. I mean, like Renoir, in a way or like today, so it's, I mean, but Degas and Gauguin are similar in this, but they technical innovation is is quite important. So it's something you will show also this balance is something which is important and you will show in the exhibition. When he died, one of his friends said, "He invented everything." And I think it's true. I was a little bit uncertain about the exhibition. You don't know when you place everything, how it will be. I mean, I think, we succeeded, thanks to the National Gallery, thanks to Art Exhibition Australia in doing something, which is significant, which brings new ideas, which brings new words in a way, and which gives the different, I hope so at least, a different image of Gauguin. I'm sorry. Thank you for your attention.

- Thank you, Henri. Vaiana Giraud holds a PhD in French literature from the University of Poitiers in France with a dissertation titled "Paul Gauguin: the Role and Place of Writing in his Work." Between 2003 and 2021, Vaiana was communications manager and cultural events producer at the Maison de la Culture in Papeete. Vaiana is now head of the traditional crafts department within the government of French Polynesia. Since 2018, she's been a member of the scientific and technical Committee working on the creation of the planned Espace Gauguin in Tahiti. Please join me in welcoming Vaiana. Thank you.

- Ia Ora na! Hello to all of you. It's a pleasure to be here today. So, Paul Gauguin as a writer, maybe it seems like an unexpected title, but let's start with evidence. Paul Gauguin is world famous for his painting, but less so for his highly developed work as a ceramist and a sculptor. Gauguin also wrote various and numerous text, as you can see, which are the least known part of Gauguin's work, if not ignored. This may be because most of them are unpublished or partially published or simply misunderstood. Half of them is probably lost. According to the inventory of his belongings at his death, which mention three manuscripts, another one dedicating to his daughter Aline, a bundle containing 12 notebooks and another containing nine manuscripts. Gauguin began writing articles and a few short texts in 1894 and published his first text in Paris. It's a fairly common approach at the end of the 19th century where art and literature were very close, but we focus on the text he wrote after his first trip to Polynesia in 1892. From this period he wrote almost one text a year in various form, collection of memories, philosophical pamphlet, art criticism, satirical articles, and he tried several times to have them published, which shows us how important they were to him. On his first trip to Tahiti, he worked mainly about his amazement at discovering Polynesia. So we have "Ancient Maori Religion" in 1892, "Notebook for Aline" in 1893, and the same year, "Noa Noa," one of his best known prose. During his second trip in 1897, he wrote "Catholicism and the Modern Mind," in which he denounced the misappropriation of the spirit of religious text by institutions. He was very familiar with notion of Buddhism and the great connoisseur of religious text. And in this pamphlet, he proclaims the unity of three great religion, Catholic, Polynesian, and Buddhist. He concluded in 1898, "From a philosophical point of view, it is perhaps the best expressed thing I have ever written." In 1899, he denounced colonisation in the satirical newspaper, "The Smile” “The Wasps." Finally, there were his end of life writings, witnesses to his solitude with many references to his previous writings. This is "Rambling with want to be Painter" in 1902, and then "Before and After" in 1903. Paul Gauguin really writes as an author. It's not a hobby. He wants to express his thoughts, his vision, and there is a real complementarity with his paintings, as paintings show the mystery and beauty of the Polynesian people, their culture and religion at the moment where it's about to disappear. While his writings really reflects his suffering and anger, his isolation, and also his struggles against the colonisation and occidental religion. His text are characterised by the rhythm, fragmentary writing, which Paul Gauguin define as follows: "It's not in the least a literary work, but something quite different. Civilised men and barbarian face-to-face." His best known work, "Noa Noa" is probably also the most misunderstood, as he generally considered to be both a travel log, and an autobiographical work. But we see that it's actually not really either of these options. That is what makes this text one of the most fascinating to analyse, both in terms of the its construction and its purpose. "Noa Noa" was conceived by Gauguin on his return from his first trip to Tahiti. And in 1893, in a letter to his wife, he explains, "I am also preparing a book on Tahiti, which will facilitate the understanding of my painting." He was very conscious of the transgression his works represented in relation to official arts, and Gauguin wished to accompany his Paris exhibition with a text placing his paintings in their Polynesian context. Several passages bear witness to his intention linking anecdotes directly to the paintings he was exhibiting. For example, we all know about "Pape moe," which is an interpretation of a photo on a postcard. So obviously the anecdote that allows him to contextualise the idea of this painting in "Noa Noa" cannot be taken at face value. Then the project evolved, and Paul Gauguin wanted to associate Charles Morice, a symbolist poet with the writing. He wanted Charles Morice to add poems to his own text, but this collaboration was a failure, as Charles Morice took liberties, modifying Gauguin's text, and finally publishing without the author agreements. Gauguin was so tired of waiting for his friend's poem, so he adds photos to his copy, incorporating collage, paintings on the blank page, and sometimes even covering his own text, creating an unexpected dialogue between the written word and images. Finally, what is Noa Noa? Is it an exhibition catalogue? A post poem? A travel souvenir? It's obviously all of this, but it's also a lot more as Noa Noa is actually a literary tale told at the first person. The detail was very much in vogue in the 19th century stemming from oral tradition, and the form of the tale conveys an appearance of authenticity, and that was perfectly suited to the painter's purpose. Claiming he's not a writer, and even though he wanted to be published, Paul Gauguin choose a form that was clearly part of the literary tradition. So that's something important to keep in mind, because with Gauguin, it's always complex, never exactly what he says, never exactly what he writes. You really have to keep this in mind. So the tale with its brevity, orality, emotion, even forays into mysterious, "Noa Noa" plunges us into a world unknown to the Parisian public. There is a really didactic approach in the book, passages about religion, Polynesian cosmogony, customs revealed by the author, because Gauguin really wanted to make it clear that he belonged to both words, Polynesian and Parisian. He's using a lot of Tahitian words, giving the reader the feeling that he had been initiated into the language, ancestral Polynesian culture, and its mysteries. "Noa Noa," like most of Gauguin's writing, helps to build his own legend as a man, as an artist, and a primitive, but also as a writer. This is one of the reason why we have to be very careful when we analyse his writings. So for his first text that he wanted published, Gauguin was not afraid to take on an author whose vision he hated, Pierre Loti. Pierre Loti was the very famous novelist in France in literary circles at the time, and his novels, inspired by his travels, had great popular success. Gauguin based his work on the novel, "Le Mariage de Loti," published in 1882 and presented his own vision in a highly successful literary pastiche. This is one of the characteristic of "Noa Noa," the use of a base that would be easily recognisable by the readers of this time. "The Marriage of Loti" is a bestselling novel of biographical inspiration that recounts the Polynesian life of an English novel Officer, Harry Grant, alias the author and the pseudonym Pierre Loti. Somewhere between fiction and reality, he describes the court of Queen Pō mare, Polynesian society, and his relationship with a very young girl, Rarahu. Gauguin strongly criticised the author for his superficial western approach to Polynesia. Indeed, Pierre Loti was himself naval officer and he was coming back from every travel with a love story. It was from Japan, from Africa, from Turkey, from Polynesia, every time a successful story. And Gauguin really couldn't stand this western approach. So although Gauguin adopted the plot of his novel, he did it to distance himself in a real crossplay with his monumental literature. So Victoria, please, if you can play the video. The main lines of Loti's novel can be found as well in "Noa Noa." Rarahu is 14 years old and has been adopted, in "Noa Noa" Teha'amana is 13 and had a foster mother. The two author really hesitate to settle down with these very young girls, but they give into their charm. Their relationship became a pretext for learning about the Polynesian language, religion, and cosmogony, which they said they had mastered thanks to their respective girlfriend. And finally, both texts open with a cruel disappointment at the discovery of Tahiti. Now, enough with similarities, let's talk about the differences. While the officer immerses himself in the delights of Pō mare's court in Papeete, Gauguin flees to the district to find more authenticity. Rarahu is questioned, while Teha'amana still knows the ritz and legends of yesteryear. And Paul Gauguin's stay runs counter to Loti's message sometimes with biting irony. There are some really funny moments, if you compare the two books, for example, Loti is walking in the mountain with Rarahu for promenade, and everything is about death. He used a vocabulary from the time of dinosaurs and he speaks about the disappearing civilization, even the light of the sun is dying, it's all about death. So, of course, Gauguin has his own promenade in the mountain in "Noa Noa," and it's very funny because he goes with a handsome young Tahitian as his guide, he was looking for a piece of wood for sculpture, and it's all about life and love and the surrounding nature is full of erotic undertones and the sound of the river and everything. So he really makes fun of Loti's approach. So as Gauguin's disappointment allowed him to turn towards the rich and profound quest, it really falls Loti in the helplessness of the inescapable death of the country and of most of the people he came into contact with. Another of the tale signature is social criticism, which is very present in "Noa Noa." And Gauguin takes great pleasure in ridiculing western civilization with representative, criticising the colony and setting it in a literary tradition as much as in his own experience. On the contrary, Loti barely touches on this theme, integrating himself into colonial Polynesia and the queen's entourage. Finally, Loti came in Tahiti to find his brother's child, but it's a failure, and he lives in despair. On the contrary, Gauguin has found inspiration and wildness he was looking for. At the end of "Noa Noa," he concludes: "I went away two years older, younger by 20 years, more of a barbarian too, and yet knowing more." To conclude, these elements show us how important writing was for Gauguin, and the practise to which he devoted as much as he did to painting and sculpture. On several occasions in his writings, Gauguin underlined the importance of his work as a whole, and his literary practise, as well as his paintings as illustration of his freedom. As a prolific writer, a multifaceted artist, and a committed man, his works at last allow us to see him fully, provided we consider them all together, as complimentary artistic practises. He reminds us in "Before and After": "You want to know who I am? Are my works not enough for you?" Thank you.

- Thank you, Vaiana. Miriama Bono is a Polynesian artist, curator, and architect. Since 2015, she has been the president of the International Oceanian Documentary Film Festival. In 2017, she was appointed director of Te Fare La Manaha, Musé e de Tahiti et des Iles, a role she held until late 2023. During her tenure, Miriama took charge of renovations to the museum that led to the return of significant items of Polynesian heritage from the collections of European institutions, including the British Museum and the University of Cambridge. Please join me in welcoming Miriama.

- First of all, before beginning, I would like to thank you for your very warm welcoming. As native people, we know the importance of and your words really touched me, so thank you for your kind welcome. Thank you. So I have to tell you something, before starting my presentation. After yesterday and after the great night and the great event and meeting we had, I decided during the night to change my talk. So, it proves that it makes a lot of effect on me. So excuse me if it'll be maybe a little bit confused, but I hope you will follow me on that. We all know that evoking the figure of Paul Gauguin today rings with a wind of polemical debate. As was pointed out yesterday, and as I would in my modest contribution to the catalogue, Gauguin is a stranger to Tahitians for the simple reason that we only know his work through postcards and blend reproduction. So this is for an example, one of the postcard that we mostly have in Tahiti and that I used to have in my own home when I was a kid. So that's the only contact that most of Tahitian can have with Gauguin's artwork. We don't have access to his work, which are kept in European museum, just as we don't have access to many pieces of our culture, which are also far from our oceans. So behind the polemics, this exhibition is also for me a vital opportunity to speak out about cultural artefacts, circulations, and the nature of local heritage, and to eliminate notions of sharing and decolonization. Yesterday the SaVAge K'lub meeting and the presence of Tahitians artists, dancers, and visual artists proved the needs to organise this type of event in the Pacific. And I'm very happy that with the name of Gauguin, we could organise that all together. Time has come for native voices to speak out. Time has come for us to share our common visions and in particular, the deep attachment to the earth we are sharing as First Nation and people of the Moana. This is a crucial moment for all of us. I mean, for all the planet . We all feel that we are at a essential turning point, and we, artists, members of native communities, leaders of cultural institutions, researchers, we all have a role to play. At a time when the museum needs to question the role toward population and communities, hosting an exhibition like this one can open many new possibilities. I was touched yesterday by the word of the director of the NGA, who say that hosting an exhibition like Gauguin is calling for a huge responsibility. And I totally agree with that, because, as I said, it's a polemic subject and it's very courageous to talk about all that. It is interesting also for me to note that at the same time as this Gauguin exhibition was being prepared, the new museum in Tahiti, that you have an image there, was about to open, and we had the chance to host Mr. Henri Loyrette that moment, very special for us. The opening of the museum offered a new perspective, and notably the return of 20 emblematic objects in Tahiti from Europe. For me, this is, again, a proof that opportunities are opening up in the Pacific and that a new dialogue is emerging around the circulations of heritage. And this dialogue has to start with art, a dialogue that can also be humorous, as in this series by the artist Kanaky. “C’est fini avec Gauguin” , means "It's all over with Gauguin," is a series of print made in Tahiti by the artist Kanaky, so from New Caledonia. And you will of course recognise the source of his inspiration that we can enjoy in the exposition. And for Kanaky, he wanted to question this prominence of easy cliche around Gauguin and all those postcards. And we use those image, "Why did you choose in Tahiti?", to interogate limited of copyright. His objective took the form of a question and I quote, "I am capable of constantly bringing Gauguin back to life and providing the sacre to his work. Of course, the sentence ‘C’est fini avec Gauguin’ , so "It's over with Gauguin," lends itself to multiple interpretations. It's kind of joke, of course, but it's also say that it's opening, he wish to open a new period for artists in Tahiti. So this work widely reproduced and present an industry of Papeete, reappropriate the cliche, and he will , I don't know, they have a new pictural area. An appropriation that which his apogee recently with the work of Yuki Kihara, someone representative Aotearoa at the Venice Biennale in 2022. Her work most clearly highlight this change of paradise. Kihara exploited Gauguin's fame to raise questions she find essential, the topics of transgender and global warming in Oceania. With humour and assurance, Kihara stage Gauguin painting with the lead female protagonist replaced by Fa'afafine. Kihara works, which we can admire in the gallery alongside the SaVAge K'lub, is fascinating, and its beauty, just like the that of Paul Gauguin to whom Kihara refers. And I have to say that I love to think that maybe Gauguin will have been pleased by this reappropriation by these two artists. Gauguin's name and work... Excuse me, I lost my line. Yeah, I have to say, I think that there is a kind of irony, but on the same time makes sense that those artists questioning Gauguin are doing it with a lot of humour. And I think he had humour too. A lot of second degree, we say in French. And yeah, as I said, I think it's also an expression of the kind of dialogue that we can have now with works, like the one of Paul Gauguin. So the exhibition in Gauguin's world is a powerful symbol for the Pacific, and it's an opportunity to see Polynesian from new perspective, to provide artists of the region with the microphone, and to reflect the contemporary issue we are facing, as we have seen, since the opening of this event yesterday, variantly orchestrated by the NGA, that I thank for that, there is a wealth of artistic talent just waiting to blossom in the Pacific. And I have to say that I am partly particularly proud that for the first time the work of a young Tahitian artist, Tahea Drollet, has just been presented here in Canberra. I also like to finish this short presentation by saying that yesterday I had a deep thought of a lot of Marquesans community, because I would have loved them to be here with us yesterday, and somehow they were with us in spirit, of course. But I also want to thank the National Art Gallery, because one of them, Heretu Tetahiotupa will have the opportunity to screen his documentary, "Patutiki" around Marquesan tattoo here in August. And I think that it'll bring a beautiful highlight to the Marquesan culture. Yes. So, to end this presentation, I really truly want to thank the NGA and all of those who organise this exhibition to give an opportunity to Tahitian and Marquesans' voices and native voices to raise and resonate beautifully in this world as it was yesterday. Thank you.

- Thank you so much, Miriama, and we look forward to screening those films in August. Our final speaker for this session is Nicholas Thomas, who first visited Polynesia in 1984 to undertake research in the Marquesas Islands. He has since travelled extensively across the Pacific and written on indigenous histories, empire and art. As a curator, he has collaborated with artists, including John Pule and Mark Adams, and he curated the landmark Oceania exhibition in 2018. Nicholas Thomas has been professor of historical anthropology, director of the Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology at the University of Cambridge since 2006, and a fellow of Trinity College Cambridge. Welcome, Nicholas.

- I'd just like to thank Aunty Caroline for the Ngunnawal welcome. I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners. I'd like to thank the National Gallery of Australia and Art Exhibitions Australia for bringing me to join this conversation and to witness an extraordinary Gauguin exhibition and the equally extraordinary SaVAge K'lub installation alongside it. It's really special that this takes place in the company of so many people from French Polynesia, Merci beaucoup d’être là, and SaVAge K'lub. I've admired and been inspired by Rosanna Raymond's projects, which have exemplified and empowered the new Oceania for more than 30 years. There's a received image of Gauguin, an artist of spirituality, myth, and dream, perhaps negatively, a fantasist of the exotic. Quite a few years ago in Germany, I saw this painting, and it stopped me in my tracks. I'd been lucky to spend time in the Marquesas, and in the mornings on Ua Pou, I quite often had coffee with people and walked down to the beach, and quite often there were young men who were giving their horses a chance to drink, and we might chat a little bit and then they'd jump on those horses, and right away to do whatever they needed to do. Since Henri is here, I have to mention that the arrangement of the figures draws upon a Degas work, a painting of race horses and jockeys. But this recollection gave me a sense that I knew these people. I'd seen them, I'd seen them on Ua Pou and elsewhere in the Marquesas in the early '80s. If you dip into the photo archives about the Marquesas, you might run into those people, too. If you go back to the Marquesas now, you might meet some of them. Of course, Gauguin was absolutely an alchemist of motifs. He is famous, notorious for drawing on everything from Borobudur, to Japanese prints, to the art traditions of Europe from the Parthenon marbles, onwards to the works of his contemporaries. But you cannot look at the works in this exhibition and others without a sort of mounting sense that you are everywhere encountering signs of place, culture and the presence of his Polynesian contemporaries. You know you are in Tahiti because the surf breaks on the reef a few hundred metres off the shore. You know you're there, because just back from the shore, the roots of the pandanus run like arteries across the surface of the ground. You know that you're there, because a couple of young women in pareo are taking something to a neighbour or a relative. In Tahiti customary houses are not white. Gauguin sure was an artist of myth and dream, but also an artist of colonial bungalows. And if you walk around the exhibition, you will see more and more in those paintings, as well as a host of other signs of, then contemporary life in Tahiti. Paul Gauguin said, what he most liked to do was paint people. The synthesist style, the so-called synthesis style, for which he became famous, gave those people presence. We could surely say, dignity and indeed mana. In this particular case, he acknowledges the woman's maturity. I guess that's a wedding ring. Some Polynesian women do wear wedding rings on their right hands. Gauguin was always both here and there. He talks about her Rafaelish face, but he also talks about the circumstances of encountering her in his manuscript, the draft version of "Noa Noa," which Vaiana just talked so illuminatingly about. We know that it's a concocted story. We know it's full of anecdotes and appropriations. It's also… perhaps points to some things that actually happened. He has two versions of a story here, which agree about one point. The woman comes into his house, is curious, looks at his prints on the wall. He asks her if he may paint her. She gets angry and goes away, but comes back, he tells us, an hour later in a beautiful dress. This story seems to be too specific to be made up. There seems to be no point in him making it up. If it is correct, it seems that she has decided that if she's going to be painted, she wants to present herself as she wishes to be represented. One of the prominent aspects of the critique of Gauguin over the last 30 or so years, one of the issues foregrounded in, for example, the feminist texts of Abigail Solomon-Godeau and Griselda Pollock was the oppression of Tahitian women. They responded to paintings like that, drawing attention to the requirement imposed by the missionaries that women dress. I think this take was not that…. they felt that the dresses were extremely ugly, that Tahitian women were burdened by those dresses. I think it's not just an incidental observation, the women were oppressed by missionaries and then exploited by Gauguin. The… Gauguin's exploitation is represented as a sequel to the oppression of the women by missionaries. I think there's a historical misunderstanding there. If one reads the archive of Polynesian culture and contact, it's absolutely clear that textiles, fabric, dress are profoundly valued, are expressions of prestige in Tahiti in the early period as they are across the whole region. People eagerly take on dress, and you might argue in fact, that they became Christian in some contexts in order to access fabric. It's, in some ways, ironic that Gauguin seems to have been one of the few people who appreciated that inhabiting that dress, adopting that dress was part of the mode of behaviour of Tahitian women. He acknowledged that in many drawings, as well as in many paintings. It's not surprising that he did so, because going back to his time in Brittany and before, he was always interested in textiles, and he often talked about the nobility of women wearing robes of various kinds and compared them with a section of the so-called Peplos Scene in the Parthenon Frieze, for example. He tended to dignify that aspect of I ndigenous culture. So I think what I'm trying to say is that Gauguin was certainly not a documentary artist or a social realist artist, but he was a painter of modern life, a painter who responded to contemporary Polynesia in multiple senses. Those dress traditions are, of course, very much alive today in modes appropriate to going to church and modes appropriate to ceremony and otherwise. Some post-colonial critics have suggested that Gauguin's women are generic figures or inventions. We are fortunate in this case to know the name of the woman painted in an early work of 1891 or '92. It happens to be the case that Teuraheimata is the sister of the great great grandmother of Hinatea Colombani, who's a textile artist who Miriama introduced me to quite recently and was extremely interested in this painting. That woman is not generic. She is no more generic or an invention than Henri or me or any of you. I want to make a jump briefly to another hemisphere, to Martinique in the Caribbean where Gauguin's campaign of 1887 is often cited as a precursor to the work he did in the Pacific. Just there is a Gauguin museum, Centre d'Interpretation Paul Gauguin at Le Carbet, the place Gauguin stayed in Martinique. It was an institution established by women and is currently run by women, and if you walk around it with Valerie who's a guide and a sort of manager, she has a story that they offer and it is essentially that it relates to women who are known in the literature as ‘porters’. Martinique was extremely precipitous. They didn't move things around by carts or on roads. In that period, women carried loads of food and many other goods on their heads. They feature prominently in Gauguin sketches and also in his most famous paintings from Martinique. What Valerie wants to emphasise is that the women did that work because they did not want to work on the plantations for a former slave owners. The work was hard, but it gave them autonomy from their perspective. Gauguin was someone who acknowledged the dignity and the strength and the work and the resistance, as they put it, of those women. Of course, this is complicated. If you read what Gauguin writes, he does write in admiring terms about those women, but he also celebrates French colonialism in Martinique, as he did in many other settings. But I think this reminds us that the intentions and values present to the creation of a painting or any other work of art are not the same as the values that it can have now, for one public or another. We could tell another whole story about the responses to Gauguin on the part of Pacific artists... Earlier today, Rosanna mentioned actually the importance of remembering people who are passed, and I won't say too much about Jim Vivieaere right now, but he was an enormously important figure in this context and others... I wanted to... I think all that work draws our attention to the way Gauguin is a resource for artists and other publics in the Pacific today. My sense is that if we plunge more deeply into Gauguin's work and get past those stereotypes that I alluded to at the beginning, Gauguin is maybe a more useful and powerful resource than he perhaps otherwise appears. On the right is Joëlle Frebault, who's the mayor of Hiva Oa. In the middle is her son, Moerani. I'm actually not putting the slide slide up, because they're descendants of one of the people who signed Gauguin's death certificate. My point is more that I guess in traditional art history, we might have thought that Polynesia played a small but important part in world art history. I want to suggest we think about it the other way. Gauguin played a small but important part in the history of Polynesia. We really must remember that Te Henua has been imagined, defined, identified by Ma'ohi, by Anata, by Islanders for themselves. It will be in the future. Maruru.

- Thank you, Nicholas. And thank you to all of our presenters in session one this afternoon. We will take a break now and return at 3:30 PM for a conversation and Q&A session with our panellists. Onsite audiences, please make your way down the escalators and to Gandel Hall for afternoon tea. And our staff are here to help you if you get lost. And please be back in the theatre ready to start at 3:30 PM. Our online audiences, we'll see you at 3:30. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Justin. Always a hard act to follow. Welcome back everyone. We'll begin this session with a conversation between the panellists before we move on to addressing questions from the audience. At this point, I would like to introduce Christine Moore, who joins us on stage to support our panellists by repeating audience questions in French. Thank you, Christine. Just a reminder that if you have a question, you can submit it via our Slido, online Q&A platform. If you're at home, you can submit your questions below the video on the gallery's website. If you're here with us in the theatre, thank you for ensuring your phone is turned to silent. And then using the gallery's wifi, you can head to slido.com, enter the code, Gauguin's World to submit your questions, and the details are on our screen to the right. I will now hand over to our facilitator, Nicholas Thomas. Thank you, Nicholas.

- Thanks so much, Georgia. It's on? Can you hear? Yeah. We will move soon to open discussion, but I thought we could just make a kind of transition if I asked each of the speakers a question in the reverse order. And Miriama, I've thought when people talked about this being the first Gauguin exhibition in the Pacific, it is not 100% true in the sense that Te Fare Iamanaha hosted "Ia Orana Gauguin" on the centenary of Gauguin's death in 2003. And I suppose I was wondering if that exhibition made any impact, how it was received by the people. There's another part to it, but maybe I'll come to that.

- Yes. Thank you for this question, because indeed I noticed that it was not totally true, because the museum in Tahiti hosted an exhibition, I think it was in 20... Yeah, 2003. And well, I have to say that I cannot really talk about the reception, because I was not in Tahiti at that moment, I was doing my studies in France. But for sure, for what I can say for the museum, that was a huge experience, because I discussed about that with the former director, which was at that moment. And it was a huge experience, because it was the first time that we had loans of such a huge importance at the museum. And it was also, of course, the occasion to showcase some great works and to talk about heritage that can be led by Gauguin. But that's the only thing that I can say about that.

- So, I've got a follow up as well in a way for both of you, because it was mentioned that the old Gauguin museum on the south coast is, which, for those who don't know, was open from the '70s until about 2013, but since closed, is being redeveloped as an espace scénographique , will that simply be somewhere for tourists, or is that a Gauguin, a space that offers Gauguin stories to Polynesians?

- The question is for you.

- Sorry. Yeah, thank you for this question, because I think it's not well known that there is an espace scénographique for Gauguin coming in few years. And it was a huge job to choose how this kind of museum would tell Gauguin's story. And it start with Polynesia, it start with its arrival, with the sounds of the port, with the traditional song. And the idea was to show how Gauguin arrives in a different world, that is really different for him and that will leave his mark on him. And there are also a lot of paintings, reproductions, of course, not real ones, and sculpture and ceramic inside. And I think it'll be a way to discover all about Gauguin almost. And it's important because these places also have to be, how can I say that? Accessible for students, for children. And I think that through this espace scénographique they will learn a lot about the painter, but also about Polynesia at this time.

- Thank you. And could I just jump back to ask a question about your fascinating talk about the writing. One of the things you mentioned was Gauguin echoed Loti's disappointment. And to be honest, I've always thought this idea that Gauguin was disappointed when he arrived in Papeete is a sort of cliche and wrong. It's extraordinary, the sort of circulation it has, if it has a kind of necessity as a sort of proposition, and you see it in exhibition catalogues and on the walls of shows and so on. And it is of course true that that's what Gauguin says in "Noa Noa," or what Charles Morice says in "Noa Noa." But when Gauguin is writing to his wife, Mette soon after he has arrived, he says ‘un pays merveilleux’(a wonderful country), and he talks about his enchantment at song and dance and the whole ceremony around the death of King Pomare and so on. So I just wondered, what do you think about that? Is that a mystification or?

- No, I think he was really quite disappointed, because he was looking for new lands, new forms, new lands, new forms.. And he arrives in a country where civilization is already too much presen. He came with a dream, it's quite normal at this time. And he was …And he knew a lot about exhibition in Paris or universal exhibition. So they were showing people from elsewhere in a situation, as if they were in a village or so. He had ideas of elsewhere. And I think when he arrives in Tahiti, it's obviously not exactly what he expects. But I think that really fast he also sees the... I think that he, I don't know really how to express it, but he felt that there was something about to disappear, something about culture, about ancient times. And that's really what he catch in his paintings, this kind of nostalgia that, yeah, he's at an important moment for Tahitian people and that's something is going to disappear. And he really felt it also, even if he was disappointed sometimes.

- Henri, we had a conversation in Paris about six months ago and you said something that has kind of stuck in my mind ever since, that was just about Gauguin being really difficult, and not difficult so much in the sense of all the controversy that we are very familiar about. I think what you were pointing to was that the challenges of a lot of the work and what it actually is trying to do and what games Gauguin is playing in paintings like "Still Life with l'Esperance," that you brought up, which have so many challenging elements.

- No, when we discuss it, I just say, Gauguin is a difficult artist, meaning that it's difficult to work on, and I mean it's not very easy... A catalogue, for example of this painting not very sampled. You have many problems around the paintings. Speaking, for example, what it in date and Marquesas you see when you go through, that many paintings were in a way partly repainted after his death. Many are fakes, I would say, or something, I mean largely completed after his death. They're not sometimes in good condition, for example. We don't have a complete retention of all his writings. You told it, for example, the correspondence, I mean it's partly published only. And even if you find every word, you know, letters by Gauguin and so on, there is not a complete recollection of what he wrote. The edition of "Avant et Après," "Before and After," which is his main book in terms of, I mean, when he explore his life, it's not made. So, I mean it's not easy, you know? And you have separate catalogues for the sculptures, for the objects, for the prints and for not exactly for the drawing, for example. So, to have everything together, it's quite problematic. And when you read, something which strikes me, when you read his writing, for example, not only "Avant et après," but "Racontars de Rapin," it's sometimes difficult to understand what he wants to say or to show. And he constantly rewrites his own story, I would say. When at the end of his life he goes back to his path, for example, he cancels many important encounters he had, for example, in the '70s, in the '80s. And as I said, he doesn't give room enough to Vincent Van Gogh, for example, who disappears in a way when he is in the Marquesas. Pissarro was so important for him, because we have to remember he was a didactic painter. I mean, he was not a self-taught painter. I mean, Pissarro helped him, helped him a lot. He didn't say anything about Pissarro, only bad things, I would say. So it's difficult to reconstitute the whole trajectory of Gauguin. And many, I mean, in many recent exhibitions or publications, you know, people concentrate only on one aspect of his works. But you have to consider everything. The place, for example, I give to his writing, he wants to be a writer, and Vaiana told it, you know, he wants to be a writer. So you cannot speak of Gauguin without considering what he wrote or just considering it as a reservoir of anecdotes, stories about his life. It's more than that. It's more than that. So it's the reason I think it's quite difficult because many things are still missing. And when in this exhibition, it's the reason I started with this landscape on the snow, I started with the Victor Segalen arriving to the Marquesas a few weeks after the death of Gauguin, because there is already a legend. Nobody knows exactly what happened in the Marquesas, you know? And from Paris, Gauguin was so far away that he disappeared in a way. And so, it took time just after his death, between, I would say the 1903 and just after the first World War, to reconstitute his work and to see what really happened. And for the long time it was only a question of paintings, I would say, without considering the other aspect of this world. So that's that.

- Well, thank you. And I think that's really interesting, 'cause I can imagine that a public would assume that so canonical an artist, so globally famous an artist would have definitive catalogue raisonne and all of these issues would've been determined and the manuscripts would be established and published. But I think you're pointing to a lot of unfinished business, and we know that there is unfinished business about the politics of Gauguin and what we end up thinking about here, all of these kinds of issues. Maybe we can move to questions, and thanks those who have logged them. Coming back to a contemporary issue, and maybe this is mostly for Miriama or whoever, but what role does Gauguin's work play in contemporary Tahitian and Marquesan culture? Is he seen to be defending or appropriating culture?

- So there is two part in this question. We will start by the role that Gauguin may play in contemporary arts for Tahitians. As I showed, we have some response of local artists or artists from the region to the work of Gauguin. If you didn't have the time to do it, I also invite you to go to the SaVAge K'lub and to see the work of Tahea Drollet because it is a response that he did also on Gauguins's, I would say, well, legacy, but in the polemics way. So to say that yes, there is a role that Gauguin is playing in contemporary art, mostly by using the figure or the, as I showed, of the work of Gauguin to express something more linked to local and Polynesians issue, which is, I think, very interesting because, and that's linked to the second question, of course, Gauguin is accused to appropriating the Tahitian culture. And now somehow you have the irony that Polynesians are appropriating the works of Gauguin to talk about themselves. And I think that's very interesting. That's also very clever, because as you see the work of Yuki Kihara, of course she is , she's using the figure and the colours of Gauguin, but she's also talking her country, about Samoan, about the community of Fa'afafine. And as I said, she's doing with a lot of beauty, a lot of exuberance. And of course, it's evocated the words of Gauguin. So it's very interesting. And for the second part of the question about appropriation, I have to say that, well, I don't know. I mean if he was defending of appropriating, I have personally, but maybe that would be interesting also to have the opinion on of Vaiana on that, I have the impression it's more fascination, I truly think, because when I see some of his work, and especially those with Tikis or sacred figure, I don't feel appropriation. I felt kind of fascination, kind of question. And also I have to say that I was very sensible about the fact that Gauguin is using Tahitian in the name of his work. And that's quite interesting, because it says first that he tried to learn Tahitian, which is not an easy thing. And he tried to understand Tahitian by using their own language. And for me, it's not an appropriation, it's kind of respect. So I know it's very polemic question and as I said, just a feeling, but I would, and also this term appropriation is something very contemporary. I mean, it's linked to a lot of other issue that I cannot truly think that we can relate to the work of Gauguin. That's just my humble opinion.

- If I can add something. I totally agree. I think there's a lot of respect in the way Gauguin see Tahitian people. And it's also because I think he was defending his own liberty as an artist, as he was really against any kind of like colonisation, like religious preaching and everything. He was really defending his liberty as an artist, as an author, as a painter. And he does the same through his paintings. He shows people not, like... There was a question when we visit the exhibition this morning, it was why people look so sad or it's not about happy naked people, it's about culture and mystery and something very specific to Polynesian people. So I don't feel either that there's disrespect in his way of painting them.

- Yeah. Excuse me. I also wanted to add, because the question for us, for Tahitian and Marquesan, and I have to say that for what I know, I don't see any influence on Marquesans' contemporary arts linked to Gauguin for the reason that there is a very strong important revival movement in Marquesas Islands, and so they are mainly focused on revival around their own language, their own dance, the practise of Patutiki, or the traditional tattoo. And it's very strong deep movement. And that's, I think, the most representative, yeah, contemporary issue for Marquesas Islands.

- But maybe people are more aggressive against Gauguin, the writers, people who are author themselves. I read a lot of very aggressive words and remarks about Gauguin's work, but I think that it's because they only know the surface and they don't know the whole art and the person that Gauguin was. And it's really important to read his writings to understand the whole person. And I think it's, yes, misunderstanding sometimes and that's why people are so aggressive against him.

- Thank you. I think we're going to keep jumping, past and present, and the next question is, what impact did Gauguin's work have on the next generation of artists in the approach to subjects and materials? And I think this is really one Henri could talk about, it just occurs to me to mention that right after his death, there was probably the biggest Gauguin exhibition that ever happened, which was a retrospective at the Salon d'Automne of 1906 with, I don't know, 250 paintings and objects, which was seen by many, many people who were major modernists.

- When he died in 1903, soon after this important exhibition at the Salon d'Automne, which was so important for artists like Picasso and Matisse especially, for example. But you had also a kind of inquiry made by a journalist about the prominent figures in the world of art for young French artists. And the two names which emerged at that time were the names of Cezanne and Gauguin. And it's interesting because many could see works by Cezanne since the '90s, you know, he exhibited quite regularly through Vollard, through different exhibition. For Gauguin, it was more difficult, because they knew only a few works. He was more a myth than a real living painter. But I mean the fortune of Gauguin started at that time, and we knew how important it was for Picasso, for example, for Matisse, even if Matisse going to Polynesia was later, was overwhelmed by the figure of Gauguin, and say, "I cannot do anything in Polynesia after Gauguin." Because I mean, the presence of Gauguin was so strong, you know, in the imagination of artists working on the Polynesian motive, that it's was impossible to do something. So I think it's what happened, really. But it took time, you know, because, I mean, the work was not very well known, and people only concentrate on the Polynesian works. The Breton period was less known and the Impressionist period nothing at that time, at that time. So a date which was very important, you know, it was in 1918 after Degas' death. And because Degas, since the beginning of '90s, as I said, collected many important and many masterpieces by Gauguin, it was surely the strongest collection of Gauguin's work at that time, is with Fayette, and also Degas was really, really prominent in collecting works by Gauguin. And all of a sudden all these masterpieces were on the market and they were bought by different institution and museums and so on. The first painting by Gauguin to be acquired by a museum in France, it was, I guess, I don't remember exactly the date, but just before the First World War. So it took time, you know, to receive Gauguin in public collections. But finally, finally, finally it happened. Yes.

- Thank you. So another question, does Gauguin's exploitative behaviour and attitudes towards Tahitian women, I'm sorry, I lost the mic. Does Gauguin's exploitative behaviour and attitudes towards Tahitian women affect our appreciation of his work today? I wonder if I might just say something about that in a sense, a little bit lateral. One of the most influential texts for people thinking about Gauguin is work of fiction. Somerset Maugham novel "The Moon and Sixpence" which was published in 1919. Maugham was fascinated by Gauguin when he first was in Paris, just after Gauguin's death and talked to a lot of people, eventually went to Tahiti and published that novel. It's ostensibly a fiction, it's about, the character is an English painter, but it had an extraordinary life as a book. It was in print, probably still is in print in many languages other than English. It was turned into a film and TV series, you name it. Maugham, some people say, was a really excellent second rate writer. And that makes complete sense, 'cause it's an incredibly simplistic book in the sense, for example, that Gauguin's marriage has this long and complicated afterlife. For years and years, he is communicating with Mette and they are sort of doing things with each other and sort of broaching some sort of reconciliation. It never happens, but Maugham's character simply leaves and cuts off contact altogether. But the point I'm trying to make is that Maugham comes up with this image of a diseased, abusive artist of great and mysterious paintings. And that image has been sort of solid in this sense and had a hold on people's thinking for over a century, since that book was published. And I think that image is sort of stuck in the way of people trying to get a sort of deeper grasp of all these complexities of the story, of the character. So, I'm sorry, that's a kind of tangent that doesn't exactly answer the question. Gauguin was, of course, a male colonist at a particular time. I don't think any of us would say that he behaved better than other male colonists of that period, and he probably behaved worse than some of them. But do others have comments on that question?

- Well, I think you said it. I mean, he was not the only one. That's not an excuse, but there is kind of a hypocrisy just to speak about his behaviour and not 100 century of behaviour against women in the Pacific. So this morning, Tahea Drollet was talking about Bourgainville and so how it starts somehow and it didn't end during all this period. So as I said, it's not an excuses, but, well, I have to say he's not the only one. And also I have to say that it's true, we are always asked this question in Tahiti, especially as women, and well, we would love that we were asked some other questions. Because of course we're not happy with that. And of course that's, yeah, that's not a good behaviour, but we have so much other things to say.

- So there's a question about Gauguin's move beyond Impressionism and what prompted, what drove that, and maybe that's one for you. Beyond Impressionism.

- Yes, Gauguin participated to many impressionist exhibitions since '79 to the last one in '86. But all from '86 to the first trip to Tahiti, moved, I mean, beyond Impressionism surely when he went to Brittany, have his encounters with Laval, with Emile Bernard, with all these artists, with his synthetic line of influence, the strong influence of somebody like Puvis de Chavannes, for example. He discovers at the end of the '80s and it moving far away from Pissarro, for example. He doesn't understand the attitude of Pissarro, for example, looking at a new generation of neo impressionists, they looking at Seurat, looking at Signac, for example, and it's something he didn't understand exactly. So I mean it's... But I mean you have something which is very important, you know, to consider is the story of the impressionist exhibition, the last one in '86, and after that, nothing else. And the generation of the impressionist artist, the generation of the artist who were born in the '30s was all of a sudden challenged by a new generation of artists, you know, by Seurat, Signac, but also the newcomers, for example, the symbolist movement, which appeared at that moment. And Gauguin participated, was considered and considered himself as a symbolist artist. For example, the links he had with and many other, writer at that time, you got Charles Morice and so on, placed him in this symbolist movement, but also the admiration he had for ,Odilon Redon for example, which is something quite important, even in the Marquesas, was very present. And so, I mean, it, I won't say changed completely. because something you see the exhibition, I hope, at least, is it's, how could I say, the continuity of the melodic line from the beginnings in the '70s to the end. I mean, it's always the same artist, changing, evolving, but you cannot say, you know, he's a different artist. No, he is very special since the beginning. And even if you look at, for example, the impressionist landscape, this beautiful landscape coming from ? , and you cannot find anything similar in the impressionist, among the impressionist painters, this kind of big landscape completely without any picturesque element and so on, the vibrant line and so on. So since the beginning, even in the impressionist movement, he's different, I would say.

- Something that very much strikes me in the later work is that everywhere in Gauguin we seem to sort of encounter the work within the work. So there is an object, there is another painting, one of his ceramics, there is always something else, but in Pissarro or, they never do that, never ever. Or at least so far as I know.

- Yes, it's something that Gauguin mentioned in "Avant et Après," and he finds that Pissarro is very poor in terms of motifs, subject. I mean, he doesn't say anything. I mean, it's only cows and landscapes and I mean it's not... And the question of a subject in the '90s, for example, becomes very important. And many find that the impressionist movement didn't bring enough ideas in the paintings. And for example, it's the case with Joris-Karl Huysmans was one of the main critics at that time, who say that, in French we will say that the impressionist is ‘bas-de-plafond’ . I don't know if you can translate it. No, you cannot! You cannot. But it's poor in terms of ideas, I would say. It's always the same thing. The kind of basic landscapes with no ideas. And Gauguin is always very meaningful, perhaps too much sometimes, because then suffering sometimes, you cannot understand exactly what he says. And even in writing, for example, I'm afraid very often I do not understand exactly what he wants to say. But I mean it's at least very.. And you are right, the question in Gauguin's paintings, the question, but also print for example, the question of quotation is something which is very important, I mean, and meaningful that we... I show it, "Still Life," you know, at the end, but he did in 1901, and significantly with objects, I mean, the mark and the bowl, but also the Puvis, the Degas, and even allegorically, the sunflowers, for example, evoking Van Gogh. So, you have to decipher paintings of Gauguin. It's very subtle always. Always.

- Thanks. So we come back to the contemporary. What role do museums play in Polynesian cultural revival? Are there many Polynesian cultural objects in overseas collections and should they be returned? And there's a short answer to the second part that has three letters in both French and English.

- Well, yeah. Well I hope that the museum in Tahiti, like every museum has played a role to play in cultural revival and in education of course, but, well I'm not longer in charge of the museum in Tahiti, but we have the chance to have the director of the museum. So if she's agree, maybe, I would like, she can respond to the other question. I don't want to disturb the organisation of this symposium, but if you agree maybe to share? Yeah? Pardon. I'm then thinking into, that's-

- If you don't mind just reframing the question quickly. Sorry.

- Okay. Like here we have two questions in one as well. So, okay, for like the first question, what role do museum play in Polynesian cultural revival? An important one, of course. And in terms of education, I was appointed a few months ago, so you know, there's a lot of work to do. I think the museum, I mean, our museum, but museums in general, have a central role to play in terms of education. And to take the concrete example of our country, I've been teaching for years as well. So I know that our teachers for the primary level or secondary level have a big lack of resources when it comes to Polynesian history and Polynesian culture. So they kind of have to create their own material. So we have a huge, huge lack of resources and materials for teachers. So I mean, if you want a population and the children and teenagers to learn the history and culture, they need to have good teachers who are well trained, and this is not really the case back home. I mean, it's not efficient enough. So yes, the museums, they finally have a crucial role to play. So we are working towards that. We already like made some agreements with the minister of education, actually happens to be our new minister of culture since a couple of weeks. And so this is one of our priorities definitely. And talking about... Okay, cultural objects that would be repatriated. We are also working towards that. We made several agreements recently with some cultural institutions of the region, especially in New Zealand, Te Papa Museum and the Oakland Museum, and we are working towards that. But also, I have to say like to precise one thing, Miriama knows the situation pretty well, for obvious reasons, we have like about 18,000 plus artefact in our museum and 10% of them are like from natural sciences. And only 520 artefacts are currently displayed in our big permanent exhibition room. And so it means that we have a lot of work to do with our own collection that we already have at home that are mostly hiding or sleeping, you know, excuse me, for the term, in our storage area, and that need to be displayed to our population. So the other reality back home is that we have a brand new beautiful museum since one year and Miriama was in charge of the building of that huge new museum. And the thing is that we are understaffed. That's also another reality. So to achieve that goal, number one, to repatriate some artefacts outside that we would love to have back home for good, we need more also staff and funding to begin with, but also to have a better display and presentation to our current collections, we also need more trained people and staff. And I think I was very long. Did I reply to all the questions? Okay, thank you.

- Thank you, Hinanui. Actually, just before we go on, perhaps it's worth mentioning that tomorrow afternoon Maureen gives a talk and you both about Te Fare Iamanaha. I'm just reminded that I was lucky to be there for the opening. And our colleague, Emmanuel Kasarhé rou who is a great museum leader from the Pacific, now president of the Quai Branly, said to everyone that this set a new standard in museums in the Pacific. I think Te Fare Iamanaha is a magnificent institution- And if you haven't been, you should go. Gauguin spent the last years of his life writing, asking for the reform of the Catholic church. What role do we think religion and Christian morality played in his motivations, including his motivations to make contact with non-Christian cultures? This is quite a complicated question, but, Henri? I mean, I guess one thing we could point to is that there was this very wide range of interest in the late 19th century between what were perceived as being affinities across many religions from many parts of the world. And in a way in that sense, Gauguin's interest in making comparisons between rights and traditions was actually nothing special, nothing very distinctive. And obviously he gave those interests rather particular form, especially in the big painting in Boston, "D'où venons-nous?" But it is a sense in which he's very much atypical actually of the period in those sort of connecting faiths kind of. You've thought about a lot of his writings and I dunno if you want to comment on that.

- Maybe just a word to say that Gauguin was fighting a lot against religion, religious people in the Marquesas, especially. And in his writings he was very concerned by the fact that he can see that Marquesan people were losing their own culture and he was saying that, if it had to continue this way, people would even not be able to walk in the mountain to go and get their food because they would not know how to walk without shoes, and he was fighting against the Catholic school. And that's part of reproaches that were made to him, because the Catholic institution thought that if there were no kids in the school, it was because of Gauguin's action. I think, it's a lot of power. I'm not sure he was really responsible, but it was one of his fights obviously, yeah.

- Thank you. We have about eight minutes, and just a couple of questions. If anyone has another question they wish to ask, they should do that. Somebody who must be a friend of mine has said, "Nicholas has just published a relevant book. Could you please tell us about it?" What I will tell you about it is that it's called "Gauguin and Polynesia," and you can go and read it if you want. I'm more interested in what others have to say at the moment. Thank you. There is also a question about, we know about Gauguin's interest in many cultures around the world. Did European industrialization impact on his work? Henri, do you have?

- No, I think, when you speak, we discussed the idea of culture in Gauguin's work, is important to consider that culture for him was not only objects, for example, from different civilizations. Culture was the climate, culture was the flowers, culture was the land, culture was the sounds, the dancers, the movements and so on. So, for example, when we discuss the Gauguin's primitivism, which is something important and very interesting, contrary to what happened later was the generation of Matisse and Picasso, we were considering only formal questions, you know? And in African objects or Oceanean and so on, Gauguin was considering everything. For example, he said that he wanted to... It's impossible for me to translate it, but you could do it perhaps. He wanted to have his, when he was in Brittany, to have his painting ‘avoir le son mat du granit’ .

- That means, his painting that... He wanted to... I mean it's not only something to look at, it's also something to listen, to hear from. So the question of sounds, for example, was very important and the question of smell, for example. But I mean it's always something, I mean, he is globally considering, for example, Tahiti is not only objects, he didn't need to go to Tahiti to find it. He could find it in the universal exhibition in Paris or the Ethnological Museum , so what he wanted when he travelled in Martinique, in Brittany, in Martinique and in Tahiti, that's a more, I mean, it's not only what could be displayed into a museum. So I mean, it's the question of music, for example, is capital for him.

- I think also at the end of the century, there's a feeling that civilization is rotten. So it's kind of a cliche, but Gauguin is trying to escape that. He feels that there's nothing to take from civilization and he was looking for something very different elsewhere in Bretagne, in Martinique, and yeah, other countries.

- We were asked how culturally different are the Marquesas from Tahiti, did Gauguin's move between these places change his work? One point, I just might mention, I think, what we might call Gauguin's last artistic campaign, the work he does from the time of his arrival in the Marquesas is in a way quite startling, and he does things he never did before, like representing Europeans interacting with Islanders, notably in the painting with the nun, and the people mingling in the household, that is in the exhibition. He never made an image like that when he was in Tahiti. So there does seem to be at that last stage, he represents the Christian Cross, which on the hill above Atuona, where it actually is. If you go there and stand on the steps of the reconstituted Maison du Jouir and look up the hill, that cross is there. There's a lot of theory in literature and art, you know, famously including Edward Said about late style and the suggestion that people, I don't know, don't care anymore, so they don't make any compromises. Gauguin in a sense never made any compromises right from the start. But there are distinctive things that emerge in, I think, in those late paintings. There are no more questions, and I think it's time for us to close. I'm afraid we don't have the liberty of carrying on, because this is being broadcast, but I would like to thank everyone and I hand over to the director.

- Thank you very much, Nicholas. I have a very short but wonderful job, and that's to thank our speakers. When Carol Henry, Henri and Garry Tinterow and I embarked on this more than five years ago, we knew that we had to widen the discussion about Gauguin to fully appreciate him. And sitting here today and listening to our speakers, they really built on the facets of what it is to consider Gauguin, his complexity, the contradictions, and also the magic. It was so wonderful to hear Henri talk about how he built the connections between his contemporaries, between place and he was always searching for something new. And Henri, I love that your comment, to focus on one aspect of Gauguin is not to fully appreciate it. To fully appreciate him, you must consider everything and that one must decipher the paintings. And Vaiana talked a little a bit about how significant the writing was, and his writing also built his own mystique. And I thought that was fascinating to look at that through his writing. And Miriama, one of the comments you made really stuck with me that Tahitians are strangers from Gauguin, and that postcard you put up was emblematic of that. And it was heartening to talk about how contemporary artists are empowering culture and artists like Yuki Kihara really summoning and being empowered in a contemporary culture now. And Nicholas, one of the really profound statements that will sit in my head as I walk through the exhibition over the many months is that Gauguin was an alchemist of motifs and the symbols and the references that continually run through his paintings. So a fascinating afternoon really that pulls at all of the goals that we have about widening the discussion about Gauguin, and to fully understand him, to quote our eminent exhibition curator, we must consider everything. Please join me in thanking our eminent panel today.