Balance and contradiction: in conversation with Xu Zhen

Born in Shanghai in 1977, Xu Zhen is a leading figure among China’s younger generation of artists. XU ZHEN®: ETERNITY VS EVOLUTION, at the National Gallery in Canberra, is the first major solo exhibition of his work in Australia and brings together early videos with more recent works, including paintings, tapestries and monumental sculptures. Interested in how cultural and financial value circulates around the world, he combines elements from many cultures, examining the effects of globalisation with often humorous or unsettling effect.

In 2009, Xu Zhen established MadeIn Company, a factory-like cultural corporation that plays on the phrase ‘Made in China’. MadeIn Company enabled Xu Zhen to increase the scale of his artistic production and curate exhibitions. In 2013, MadeIn Company launched the brand XU ZHEN®, interrogating the way in which art and artists are commodified by a contemporary global art market.

In December 2019, I travelled to Shanghai to meet with Xu Zhen in his studio to discuss his practice and the upcoming exhibition. The following was drawn from conversations over two days, interpreted by Alexia Dehaene, Xu Zhen’s museum liaison.

PETER JOHNSON: Your work first came to international attention at the 49th Venice Biennale in 2001 with the exhibition of Rainbow (1998), and subsequently with Shouting (1998) at the 51st Venice Biennale in 2005. Both these videos are included in the exhibition at the National Gallery of Australia. In Shouting, you film crowds of people and record their reactions when you suddenly let out a shout. What did this work mean for you?

XU ZHEN: This work was made at a time when people were not so individualistic. What fascinated me as an artist then was the relationship between the individual and society. The act of shouting in a crowd of strangers is a way of showing my own existence. I wanted to create a moment that said, ‘I’m here!’

In 2009, you established MadeIn Company as a creative corporation focused on producing works of art and exhibitions and researching contemporary culture. All of your works since then have been the product of MadeIn, and you’ve curated exhibitions with artists from China and around the world. Why did you decide to create MadeIn and how did it come to be?

In 2000, I established a non-profit art centre with other artists called Bizart and we worked as a team to create exhibitions and events. At the time, the whole art scene was quite underground in terms of ideology. But, after 2005, with economic growth and the growth of the art market, we began to realise the importance of the commercial aspect of artmaking and so decided to start MadeIn Company. As the company developed, we realised that having different departments, from the creation to the production and promotion of works, was very compatible with my way of working and with the art scene at that moment.

You’ve said that prior to 2005 there was some tension between artists and the government but that you found making art in a commercial environment changed that. Did the kinds of art you were making change, or was it just a different way of expressing yourself?

From 1997 to 2008, the way that I and most artists were working was more centred on ourselves and directed to a smaller audience. As my practice became more entwined with the market, I became aware that the audience for my work was broader. It might have an influence within the art world, but also a general audience and so that changed how I create work.

I’ve heard MadeIn Company described as a community as much as a business. Is there an inherent critique in the commodification of art by creating art through a commercial entity? Or is the company model just well-suited to art production?

Most things are a business nowadays, so creating a company, in a way, solves the conflict between art and business. The company itself brings together these aspects in a magical way.

In 2013, MadeIn Company launched the brand XU ZHEN®. What is the power in having your identity as an artist incorporated into a brand?

I believe most artists are like brands these days. Creating a brand has also brought some new restrictions around the quantity of work created and my way of thinking. However, the restrictions and relations between art and business open up a lot of interesting questions. Usually when people think of artists, they have a romantic notion, but when it’s a brand, perhaps it leads to an interesting misunderstanding, as this identity in society is quite different. The pace of life in China can make people quite anxious, particularly about the relationship between art and business. By combining them, I find new possibilities.

Perhaps your most well-known work is In Just a Blink of an Eye (2005), in which a live performer seems to be suspended in the air a mere millisecond before hitting the ground. There have been many interpretations of this work, including its relationship to the immigrant experience. What was the original inspiration?

The inspiration for this work came from sometimes seeing people in the street who almost fall down but don’t. It’s like a lot of things that seem like they are about to happen but, for some reason or another, don’t in the end.

You mix elements from different cultures in many of your works. For instance, the Eternity series combines classical Greek and Chinese sculptures to create new forms. In a way, they echo the ways in which cultures mix and clash in the modern world. Why bring these forms together and how does that reflect what is happening under globalisation?

For my generation, after the reforms of the 1980s, a lot of things from abroad, especially in terms of design and art objects, started coming into China. Even today, many people still have the idea that valuable or desirable things only come from overseas. Because of China’s history, with the May Fourth Movement and the Cultural Revolution, a lot of traditions have been broken many times. As such, people tend not to have a lot of faith or believe in things easily. When I play with cultural elements, they don’t carry the same weight as they do for others. It’s not a lack of respect but I feel I can be audacious with such forms because I have a greater distance from them.

When you look at my work, it reflects the evolution of society in China or the way that Chinese people look at the world. The early works from 1997 and 1998 were created after the reform, at a time when we hadn’t really been impacted by globalisation yet. These works are more centred on the artist and act as a rebellion against society. After that time, you can see all these new elements being added to the culture. The idea of globalisation only really appeared in China in the year 2000, which you can see reflected in how my work developed over that period, as it started incorporating elements from other cultures.

I’m interested in the misunderstandings that can be created between East and West. How sometimes, when they confront one another, one cannot convince the other of its position and vice versa. It’s all about the viewer’s experience and background and all the misunderstandings that can create.

Many artists today create works that engage in spectacle. Art is becoming ever larger and more immersive to encourage an emotional response in audiences. You often work at very large scale. Is that sense of spectacle important to you?

For artists working here, I feel that it is mostly related to the scale of China.

Everything here is big and imbued with a long history, so the scale of it is very different to other parts of the world. My work tends to be large because the original elements, such as the Parthenon marbles or Greek columns, are quite big. I’m drawn to such things because of what they say about power and what is valued in different societies.

A key part of globalisation has been the spread of the internet. How has the internet in China impacted your visual vocabulary and the way you make works, but also Chinese culture more generally?

The impact of the internet has been really important. It started to develop in China from 2000 and was a new way of learning when the traditional way of learning wasn’t working anymore. It’s a way of surviving because you can access so much information. It brings everything into close proximity. Before, when you wanted to understand something about Greek sculpture, for example, you would have to go through a lengthy process. Now it’s very easy. Everything is brought to the forefront together. I’ve been able to bring all sorts of elements together, such as political cartoons, at a scale that is characteristic of the internet and how it affects our lives.

The most recent work in the exhibition is “Hello” (2018–19), a monumental Greek column that seems to have come alive, taking on the aspect of a serpent that follows visitors around the gallery space with its persistent stare. Does this work reflect the way in which cultures interact and affect one another?

Under globalisation, sometimes we believe that tradition is an issue and sometimes we believe that the future is an issue. Here, I’ve used a traditional thing and renewed it in some way. It also has a threatening aspect, like the imperial civilisations in the Greek tradition, of a power system over you, a bit like a shadow. It’s interesting because, in the West, such columns would be used in official buildings such as courthouses and banks, whereas they most often appear in front of public baths in China, or places where you can sing karaoke.

Many of your works walk a line between humour and darkness, between hope and threat. What draws you to this way of making?

Perhaps it’s related to my own temperament. When I create a work, I’m always trying to find some kind of contradiction. I don’t like it to be completely white or black. When people look at my works, they sometimes try to find the black part or the white part. Through that, there’s a kind of democratic aspect, a kind of balance you can find in it. After creating work for twenty years, I wonder if it might also be related to the Chinese tradition of the yin and yang. While my work might appear direct, when you really try to understand it, I hope the meaning becomes a bit more blurry in the end.

XU ZHEN®: ETERNITY VS EVOLUTION is on display at the National Gallery until 13 September 2020.

XU ZHEN®️: ETERNITY VS EVOLUTION is presented with the support of Dr Judith Neilson AM and the White Rabbit Gallery Collection, Sydney.